Crossing Obama - The tale of Joe the Plumber
I can’t tell you how thrilled I am that the “Joe the Plumber” hullabaloo is still alive and kicking. I’ve been pretty busy but I’m dying to get my two cents in. You see, I just love it when current events prove me to be spot on with my criticism of Obama, the elitist.
So, Barack the King is taking hits for his response to Joe’s question regarding future tax programs. Joe is looking to buy a business ““ a business that makes over 250K a year. And Joe, when finding that Obama was cruising his neighborhood, got in line and when approached, ask the obvious ““ are you going to raise my taxes? Well, Obama was admirably accurate and clear. He gave a very straightforward answer ““ higher taxes help those who don’t pay taxes to get ahead. Did you get that? No yes or no answer. Just an explanation of how Joe should be happy to “œspread the wealth” so that others that come after him should have an easier job of it.
This is where it gets good. Joe isn’t very happy to here about higher taxes. And Obama isn’t happy to be confronted with what may be, for the first time ever, a non-supporter. Surprise ““ hard working Americans don’t want to pay higher taxes after all. This can not possibly be the first time Obama has heard this. It just can’t be. I mean, he needs to get out more.
Obama isn’t even President yet and the media police are already stamping out our freedoms. They’ve basically tarred and feathered good ole’ Joe. They’ve dug up his divorce records, his financial records and dug through his trash. Geez, if only they had put as much effort into the Obama-Ayers affair. Apparently all those dejected journalists that had to leave Alaska in shame have reconvened in Northwest Ohio and they are hungry for blood.
I find it truly remarkable that Obama, being the good and decent guy that John McCain claims he is, has not come forward and denounced the savage character assassination of an ordinary guy who just happens to have a mind and opinion of his own. It looks like we have good times to look forward to if Obama should by chance win this thing. If the media was rabidly anti-Republican before, under an Obama administration, it will look like Christians to the lions. We saw a bit of the future the other night at the Afred E. Smith dinner. Did you see Obama trying to poke fun at himself? Did you see his sneer at the jokes being made at his expense? This guy is seriously deranged ““ possibly even a sociopath. He has no conscience. People are tools to be disposed of when they no longer serve a purpose. Joe did not serve a purpose so he must be eliminated. (I hope the guy’s life insurance is paid up.)
But I think this glimpse of the future we’ve had this week may just have turned a few heads. Whether it was Obama’s admission of his “spread the wealth” philosophy or his outright hatred for this ordinary working American, Obama has shown his true colors. He is a hateful, elitist snob who believes only he knows what is best for America and we should all just sit down and shut up. Oh yeah, let’s elect the dictator guy with the personality disorder. I bet he eats puppies for breakfast and kittens for lunch. Apparently he reserves caviar and lobster for afternoon snacks.
The best part of this, though, is that “Joe the Plumber”, another ordinary American placed in extraordinary circumstances, has turned out to be the hero of the day. He has single handedly revealed to all of America the one fact Obama didn’t want getting out ““ he wants to give your money away to those who aren’t willing to work hard enough to earn their own. Obama wants you to believe that having more than his prescribed amount makes you a bad person and you must be punished. So, if earning more than 250K gets you punished with higher taxes, how much do you have to earn before you get punished with a baby?
Popularity: 20% [?]
Comment by Chris on 20 October 2008:
I’ve got news for you, GOP Mom, the taxes are not going to be limited to those with incomes $250,000 and above. The BO people will find plenty of ways to tax the rest of us. You can’t hide your character - sooner or later it comes out - and it came out with BO’s comments to Joe the Plumber. Very simply put, Obama has socialist/Marxist ideas but they’re elitist ideas - he will keep his $2,000,000 house and he will keep on sneering at the rest of us. But the American people seem so unaware of what is going on. They’re about to commit national suicide because what is coming down the road is BO gets elected is scary and few people seem to have the slightest idea.
Comment by gopmom on 20 October 2008:
Chris, Obama won’t win. The mid-west common sense gene will win out, as it did in 2004. The coasts don’t own this country. And neither do the socialists. If you’re on the ground here, even in Massachusetts, you see as many if not more McCain signs that Obama signs. And Father Jonathan at FoxNews had a very interesting article this past week that I have found to be true. People are afraid of the backlash of admitting they are voting for McCain. But as soon as people discover you support McCain their enthusiasm is remarkable. The same goes for Sarah. I talk about this election with every shopkeeper, cashier, postman I encounter and the response is overwhelming. Many even admit to switching because of the economy. They understand that socialist welfare programs are not the answer. Obama came clean last week in Ohio with Joe the Plumber and voters are not happy to hear what he has planned.
Comment by Panoptic on 20 October 2008:
Mid-west and common sense used in the same sentence. Isn’t that an oxymoron? Obama is going to win. Get used to it.
Comment by Panoptic on 20 October 2008:
Here’s the REAL story of Joe the Plumber:
Once upon a time there was a man named Joe who claimed to be a plumber, but in fact he didn’t have a plumbing license. On a sunny day in Ohio Joe confronted Senator Obama and explained to him that he wanted to buy a small business that would make over $250,000 a year and therefore would pay more taxes under Senator Obama’s plan. Senator Obama explained his program to Joe, but rather than tell Joe what he wanted to hear, he was honest and told Joe that he would indeed pay more taxes. That’s the first and last time Senator Obama ever brought up Joe.
Later on, a desperate old man named John McCain thought that it would be a good idea to exploit Joe on national TV in order to slam Senator Obama’s tax plan. When word got out that Joe the Plumber was actually Joe the unlicensed tax dodger, followers of John McCain tried to blame Senator Obama for the whole debacle even though it wasn’t his idea to bring up Joe in the first place. Somehow the McCanites even think that exposing someone that’s been practicing a profession illegally (and probably working under the table and undercutting the prices on legitimate plumbers) and not paying taxes is a horrible thing. They’re trying to say that he’s still just an Average Joe, even though this Joe happens to be a criminal.
Had John McCain properly vetted Joe himself he would have been able to prevent this from happening, and perhaps could have helped save Joe’s reputation. Had he not tried to exploit Joe, Joe would still have a career today. If he didn’t have to make desperate appeals to pathos all the time, perhaps Joe’s ethos wouldn’t be damaged goods. Instead John decided to put Joe in the national spotlight and make him a superstar for fifteen minutes. But this, according to McCanites, is obviously all Obama’s fault.
Comment by Panoptic on 20 October 2008:
I’m glad this is still news too GOPMom: Criminals for McCain! What an endorsement! Should pay huge negative dividends to the McCain campaign.
Comment by Panoptic on 20 October 2008:
Good news for Joe: now that McCain has ruined him by putting him in the spotlight he won’t have to worry about buying that business and being in a higher tax bracket.
Comment by gopmom on 20 October 2008:
Panoptic, You’re reading Kos again. And using NObama talking points, points they had to invent to attempt to draw attention away from their socialist “spread the wealth” plans. It doesn’t matter who Joe is, what matters is Obama on national TV describing his “spread the wealth” plan. DId you get that? “Spread the wealth” - that’s what Obama said.
Now, you try to reassure yourself all you want that this country is populated by two types of people - the idiots not on the coast and the idiots on the coast. But what I’m trying to figure out is how smart can all you coastal intellectual Liberal types really be if you’re the ones who drown first when the icebergs melt? That is your belief too, isn’t it? Or are you actually one of the believers that thinks Obama will halt global warming with a wave of his almighty hand? Come to think of it, I don’t really know what you believe. I know you disagree with me and my support for the Republicans but what I’d really like to know is why you are an Obama supporter. Why don’t you put a little something together for all of us non-believers. I’m curious.
Comment by Ian on 20 October 2008:
G-Mom,
I don’t see how this is a conspiracy. Obama said what he said in public. So far the only backlash has come from the far right Republican base. They’re not his intended audience and he is not trying to get their vote.
People have been asking why Obama hasn’t been vetted as much as Joe the Plumber. We already know that Obama is going to tax Joe and that he said “spread the wealth”. There’s nothing to be answered there. Obama has been open and clear about it (since we all know about what he said, I think it’s safe to assume it hasn’t been burried in a cover up. Use some logic - how secret is something that everyone knows about).
Unless you believe that all those people voting Obama (more than voting McCain) are too stupid to know what’s going on and to make informed decisions. Of course you and your cronies are the only one’s smart enough to know the Truth. Who’s being an elitist here?
Food for thought: many potential Obama voters (the younger generations) don’t have land lines - so they’re not represented in the polls. This could be even worse for McCain than the numbers indicate. I predict Obama, and it won’t be close.
We’ll see who’s right Nov. 4th. If you are I’ll humbly concede and admit I’ve been wrong.
Comment by gopmom on 21 October 2008:
Panoptic - Still waiting.
Comment by Panoptic on 21 October 2008:
You sit there and you wait GOPMom because it’s not coming. I come here to comment on your blog, not to provide content. If I wanted to blog about my politics, I’d start my own.
Comment by gopmom on 21 October 2008:
What if I make everyone promise not to comment? I’m sure you must have at east one opinion of your own. There must be one reason why you choose Obama over McCain. One?
Or are you just another stooge of the MSM, voting Obama because it gives you ’street cred’ on Facebook?
Comment by Panoptic on 21 October 2008:
I’ll give you the same reason you’ve been giving us, in reverse: He’s not John McCain. All I’ve been reading here are reasons not to vote for Obama, conspiracy theories, etc. And please, saying that I don’t have an opinion or haven’t said anything of my own may seem like a very sophisticated argument to you, but I just laugh at it.
Comment by Panoptic on 21 October 2008:
Why don’t you just turn comments off. That will take your hit count way down and you’ll lose any leverage you might be getting from the traffic that myself and others are giving you. Or you can just block me, I won’t cry. I promise.
Comment by Marie on 21 October 2008:
Actually, Joe the plumber really just wants everyone to shut up about him, and focus on more important tasks on hand. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27207215
Comment by gopmom on 22 October 2008:
As we all should. We should all be asking Obama and his supporters to explain to us how punishing progress and success will benefit the nation. The government has had decades to show they can raise up the “impoverished”, level the playing field, equalize society. What everyone on the Left side of the aisle fails to realize is that there are people in our society who will never succeed, progress, be responsible for themselves. They would rather someone else take care of things for them. If 25% of the current population relies solely on the productivity of the other 75%, and we’re struggling already, how can we possibly put more on the dole?
If I were you, Marie, I wouldn’t get too attached to all those shiny, glittery items being advertised on TV while you watch all those hip “shows” (commercials) you so enjoy. If Obama has his way, no one will be able to afford anything not subsidized by the Feds. You’ll just have to get into a government line. Now I ask you, will you still be willing to work 40+ hours a week when you must give away 40-50% or your income to the government, to pay to someone else? It sounds attractive when you’re on the side getting a check but from all you’ve indicated you’re working hard to end up in the paying side. Why bother? If you’re so confident Obama will win, why are you still at school?
Joe had one thing right - poor people in America are not really poor. The only people starving on the streets of America are the ones who purposely do not seek out help - and are there any? You want to see poverty, try Kenya, where the other Obama family is in power.
Comment by ATG on 22 October 2008:
I think that the standard of “our poor people are better off than poor people in Kenya” is a little low for America to strive for.
Comment by gopmom on 22 October 2008:
As for me and my family, that little fishing-villlage in Ireland, where I spent a fabulous week in ‘93, is looking more attractive every day. Thank goodness Obama won’t win - I don’t do well in damp weather.
Comment by Panoptic on 22 October 2008:
It’s gopmom comedy hour again.
Comment by Panoptic on 22 October 2008:
Threatening to defect if Obama wins! I remember what the Neo-Cons said about the Democrats that threatened to leave the country if Bush was reelected. Do you think those Pro-Americans are threatening to leave?
Do you ever take your comedy routine on the road gopmom? I could use some entertainment at my niece’s upcoming birthday party. She’s going to be 5, but I doubt anything you say will be over her head.
Comment by gopmom on 22 October 2008:
Just an example how how outrageous and ridiculous Obama’s claims of “no opportunity” and “inequality” in America are. I mean, shouldn’t the next possible President of the US have some idea of the difference between poor and desperate poverty?
Comment by ATG on 22 October 2008:
Do you think that we should only try and help the poor if they’re as poor as the impoverished in Kenya?
Comment by Panoptic on 22 October 2008:
Can I come to watch you denounce your citizenship to these great United States of America?
Comment by Panoptic on 22 October 2008:
No offense gopmom, but when was the last time you went out and tried to get a job and take care of yourself? There’s nothing wrong with being a stay at home mom, but I don’t think you’re the best person to speak on opportunity and individualism.
Comment by Panoptic on 22 October 2008:
Do yourself a favor and go out and buy the book “Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting By in America.”
Comment by ATG on 22 October 2008:
Predicted gopmom response to Nickel and Dimed: “Sure, but those jobs are usually held by immigrants, and I don’t care how well illegals are doing”
Comment by Panoptic on 22 October 2008:
I agree, but my prediction is she’ll ignore the recommendation all together because it came from me. And she already know what “kind” of person I am.
I do find it funny though that gopmom seems to equate hard work with money and success. I was taught that going to college was a privilege. I was taught that hard work meant hard work no matter how much you were getting paid to do it: a person that pours concrete works just as hard as a civil engineer. Work is a measure of physical and mental energy exerted. Both may be successful in their fields, both do jobs that are meaningful to society, but they certainly don’t get paid the same amount of money.
Saying that people who aren’t making over $250,000 a year aren’t working hard enough is just plain insulting to all working class people. Those same people who perform the jobs that literally and figuratively make up the foundation of this country.
The problem isn’t that we don’t have hard working people, the problem is the huge and arbitrary disparity in pay. A baseball player without a college degree can make millions, while a college professor with a Ph.D. can’t even support a family without his/her spouse also bringing in income. These low paying jobs are important to society, more important to society than millionaires who’ve designed a new computer application that allows you to play Scrabble against someone in China on your PC. What’s the incentive to do those jobs if you can’t support a family?
Comment by gopmom on 22 October 2008:
Wow, Panoptic, I’m having trouble deciding if based on the quotes below, you are a Republican or Communist. Maybe you can help me.
“The problem isn’t that we don’t have hard working people, the problem is the huge and arbitrary disparity in pay.”
Does this mean everyone should be paid the same, no matter how skilled or unskilled, with no regard to the time and expense put into their education and no matter how valued their skill is to the general population? From each - to each - that was the Marx quote, right?
But then you say -
“A baseball player without a college degree can make millions, while a college professor with a Ph.D. can’t even support a family without his/her spouse also bringing in income.”
Now, while I can’t recommend paying the Liberal college professors of our country any more than they already earn, that’s an admitted partisan bias. (I mean, there are perks to being a tenured professor but maybe you’re not there yet?) But the premise that many valuable professions are not rewarded adequately, while other useless”professions” are rewarded immensely, is not owned by the Left. It’s actually more of a Conservative view. And aren’t all the Hollywood/celebrity types on your side of the aisle? I don’t get it - this is not a Liberal opinion. Are you waffling? Or are you a struggling Ph.D. who couldn’t even make it into the minors?
“These low paying jobs are important to society, more important to society than millionaires who’ve designed a new computer application that allows you to play Scrabble against someone in China on your PC.”
I’m all for any job, or many jobs - I’ve had quite a few low-paying jobs in my life and, to quote my father, ‘they’re character builders’. The Right is not the side that says you must have a good, clean, respectable job. No one on the right will say all must go to college and become professionals. The Left is the purveyor of the belief that all are entitled to a good job with good pay and a free college education. Not everyone can go to college and not everyone can achieve at a high level. And not everyone out there wants to be “rich”. But since when did we, as a nation, decide that in order to make everyone “feel good about themselves”, we must all be equal economically? That is a Leftist, socialist belief and it’s not selling on the streets of America today. Sorry.
Obama was the one who said that $250K was more than enough, you should give back more, not me. But you seem to be having trouble finding your own opinion. So which is it, Republican or Communist - such extremes? You sound like one of those have-nots who is just bitter and resentful of anyone that does well. But what you fail to recognize is that those who do well, put back in to the system. If no one puts money back into the economy, we will be Kenya.
As for a few of your other queries, I did read “Nickel and Dimed” - most of it, at least - maybe two years back, whenever it came out, my dad let me borrow it. I know you want to paint me into some elitist corner who thinks the poor should just eat cake but you can’t do it. I live in a modest house, in a modest town, wear jeans and t-shirts, shop at Target and Shaw’s, and vacation at my parent’s house in FL. No, I currently don’t work because I live away from all my family and I have a young child who needs someone to still look after and supervise her and since my husband works and commutes 12 hours a day, my working is not feasible. She’ll be gone all too soon and I can work then. I have had a few part-time jobs over the year, to earn a few extra dollars for myself - coffee shop, dog walker and substitute teacher - nothing glamorous but I was a caterer in a former life so I’m used to working hard for nothing. But getting a full time job would require child care, commuting, a wardrobe, a house cleaner (perk I demand), a dog walker and carry-out too often. If I got a job in my field and worked full time, after all expenses and taxes were paid, I’d earn less than $100 a week. And that’s before I calculate in a new Obama tax plan.
I never said I would renounce my citizenship. I just made the comment that we were looking at other countries (that are friendly to new small business formation, since that is our next step.) I value so highly what being an American is, I would never give it up, no matter who is President. Presidents come and go but our country is still strong and we are still , in my opinion, the luckiest people on earth. I spent a year living outside the country - I learned well how truly blessed all of us are. For most of us, the privilege of being an American is an accident of birth. We should remember that daily and feel humbled by the responsibility.
Comment by ATG on 22 October 2008:
I dunno gopmom, for all your rants against panoptic sounding communist/republican, noting that the privileges we have are an accident of birth is an awfully liberal way to look at the world…
And saying that you think the poor should just eat cake is different from calling you elitist, by the way. I think those you would call elitist - east coast liberals with their worthless ivy league educations - would be the ones most repelled by the idea that the poor should eat cake. On the contrary, it’s the folks who have not had those same privileges and have worked hard to achieve respectable middle class lifestyles, but consequently have never looked at the sociological challenges facing the truly poor in this country that assume that poverty is a purely self-created phenomenon.
Comment by Ian on 22 October 2008:
“Does this mean everyone should be paid the same, no matter how skilled or unskilled, with no regard to the time and expense put into their education and no matter how valued their skill is to the general population?”
That’s not what he said GOPMom. I think what he was arguing was that having a skill or an advanced education doesn’t mean you are going to get paid more. The definition of “skill” is arbitrary. Isn’t a person that cleans septic systems valued to the general population? Or the guys that haul hazardous waste for a living (that was my first job out of college - I had a B.S. in Biology, which the job required, and I spent my time keeping companies from violating EPA regulations and doing the grunt work of actually packing and removing hazardous waste - all for $12.00 per hour. I had to know the hazard properties of hundreds of chemicals, state and government regulations, and be strong enough to roll 600lb. drums of methylene chloride into the back of an eighteen wheeler). Nobody with a college education wants to risk their health to do these jobs for that kind of money. I didn’t, but I had to given the job market for people with degrees in biology. I got out ASAP.
To the point: I don’t think Panoptic was saying that everyone should get paid the same wage, I think he was merely stating that we pay huge amounts of money to people with skills that don’t always add to the basic needs of society. Yet people have to do these jobs. So you either get the companies to pay them more (which they aren’t) or you give them tax breaks and other incentives. It’s not only the wealth that contribute to society GOPMom, they’re not the ones with all the skills either. Unless you have a very elite definition of what constitutes a “skill”.
Comment by Marie on 22 October 2008:
…enlighten me. Really. Since you seem to know me SO much. What glittery hip shows do you think I watch on TV? You never fail to assume.
Predictable.
Comment by Ian on 22 October 2008:
I’m not bashing stay at home moms, my mother stayed home with me and my brother until we were old enough to go to school and she could take on a part time job during school hours; however, they are used to having complete control over their little piece of the universe. They control what comes in and what goes out. Not that what they do or the piece of the universe they control aren’t important, but to paraphrase President Bush - a dictatorship is a whole lot easier.
This brings me to the echo chamber that I’ve written about before. Just look at the links that GOPMom supports, not a single link supports an alternative viewpoint. She surrounds herself with people that think just like her and because she doesn’t have to go out into society and compromise with bosses and coworkers, she doesn’t have to listen to anybody. Sure she volunteers, but those people without the same values, goals, and ideals as her she labels as stupid lazy liberals. I’d hate to have to go to work every day with that attitude. It’s not surprising that she would say: “The only people starving on the streets of America are the ones who purposely do not seek out help - and are there any?”
To answer your question GOPMom, yes there are people starving on the streets of America. You need to get out of your house and out of your echo chamber to see them. Look for them and you will find them, just like you’ve been finding more and more McCain signs. I don’t look for McCain signs or Obama signs and I don’t see many - doesn’t mean that they’re not there, I’m just not paying attention. Have you been to Kentucky lately GOPMom? I have and it’s a shame (I actually went to see the Creation Museum - I’m not a Creationist, but wanted to see things from their point of view). It’s a shame because those poor people are working and they’re still below poverty level. They can’t afford health care and 1 in 10 residents are missing all of their teeth. Most of these people are Republicans GOPMom, but that’s not important. What’s important is they’re human beings, they’re willing to work, but they’re not getting anywhere. They have a lot of Churches in Kentucky too GOPMom and lots of Church going people. Even Mega-Churches and I’m sure they all do their best to raise money for charity, but it’s not enough. What are they supposed to do?
Comment by Ian on 22 October 2008:
And you seem to imply that Democrats don’t give to charities. While I don’t know the statistics, I do know that my wife is a Democrat (and she’s not religious either - one could “label” her as a secular progressive) and she gives and gives. When we were married we donated all of our wedding gifts to charity (and we payed for the wedding). We’re not wealthy by any means, but we do our best to support those who are less fortunate. I know plenty of other Democrats who also give their time and money. Many, like us, don’t even write our contributions off. I’m not saying Republicans don’t give, they may even give more, but it’s not fair to insinuate that only one party gives. I’ve said it before - we’re all human beings. We’re all affected by our culture and our environment. For most people, it has less to do with the political party they belong to and more to do with how and where they were raised.
Comment by gopmom on 23 October 2008:
Wow, Ian. Your mom did a real number on you.
But thank you again for your exhaustive contributions. FYI, Republicans give more time and money that Democrats, a statistical fact. So while I’m impressed you gave away all your wedding gifts, I got married once, too. I would have gladly given away most of mine.
As for the poverty issue, I gotta’ tell you, if you’re starving in America, you’re doing something wrong. The overall wealth of our nation is not demonstrative of our callousness toward those less fortunate, it is an example of how inept and incompetent people can still be, no matter how many opportunities you throw at them. Therefore, why throw more money at a problem that persists no matter what we do? And why give it to the Feds? I’ve never said eliminate all assistance programs, I have continually lobbied for more state and local administration over assistance programs. Why give this to the Feds? Why expand programs that do not work? And finally, how stupid must the Democrats think we are, if they assume we will hand over the Presidency, the Senate and the House to them - talk about giving away the Golden Goose.
Comment by gopmom on 23 October 2008:
And Ian, I’ve made this suggestion before but I’ll repeat myself for you. This is my blog so I get to pick what goes up. There is no shortage of Liberal thought and opinion on the web or anywhere in our culture. Your continued intolerance of my view, my opinion, my freedom of speech is to be expected. No Liberal is happy until they get their five cents in. The belligerence and intolerance of the Left is what has done the most damage to our country and will continue to hamper any effort to come to some middle meeting ground. And why is it all of you think it is so important to come to an agreement. I see no value or virtue in the Liberal way of thinking, in the philosophy of the Democrat Party. Until your side pushes through the Fairness Doctrine, I can do and say whatever I want. If you need more reassurance, you are (still) free to go elsewhere.
Your ridiculous argument, though, is completely discredited by my publishing of all your comments. You do realize that, don’t you? And could you pass this information on to “Panoptic” please?
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
The only thing that can possibly overshadow your arrogance is your ignorance.
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
Fairness Doctrine? You’ll bring just about anything into an argument won’t you? Do you keep a list of talking points handy?
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
And it’s DemocratIC Party. Try showing a little respect for a change. Even if you don’t agree with their views, that’s the name of the party. I don’t call you IgnoramusMom just because I think that’s a better name for you.
Comment by gopmom on 23 October 2008:
Blah, blah, blah. More accusations but never a coherent opinion or argument. I get you don’t like me. What I don’t get is why you get so offended at comments I direct to “Ian”? And why don’t you offer a genuine rebuttal of policy? Just more Obama camp & ACORN directives - try to break down their spirit, maybe they’ll give up. So pathetic.
And I think Democrat is a nice compromise - after all, I didn’t say Democrap, which is what I was thinking. I reserve respect for those who earn it. I see no reason to show any to such a collection of reprobates.
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
Reprobates - big word. What are you? Some kind of pseudo-intellectual elitist?
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
I don’t get upset because you bash Ian, I get upset because you are blind to your own hypocrisy. It’s unnerving. I’m glad you’re on the fringe. The fringe from both sides makes up a very small percentage of the population. I’m glad we have sane, intelligent, Democrats and Republicans in this country.
Comment by LOUDelf on 23 October 2008:
Most places don’t require a plumbing license to do plumbing work, so I think that the attack on “Joe the Plumber” is unwarranted, since all he did was ask a question to a candidate. The candidate put his foot in his mouth by indicating he would spread the wealth around, which does not sit well with the middle class the candidate is trying so hard to woo, so the surrogates, instead of having him clarify his message, go after “Joe the Plumber”.
Frankly two things disgust me. 1) That the media and Obama’s surrogates try to drag this guy through the mud when he was very respectful, and just asked a question. 2) Obama wants to take money from me, who already helps out the less-fortunate much more than the regular elf (or American) and give it to people who by-and-large work fewer hours and sacrificed far less to get ahead.
And Panoptic, you say: “Mid-west and common sense used in the same sentence. Isn’t that an oxymoron? Obama is going to win. Get used to it.”
– Isn’t Obama FROM the midwest? Which one is it? Is Obama the idiot you find midwesterners to be? Or are the people from the midwest smart like Obama, and therefor know better than to vote for him?
Please, talk reason guys, and drop the pompoms.
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
LOUDelf,
Do you read anything before your fingers start spewing words onto the screen? And the midwest/common sense statement was a joke - loosen the tie.
How can you talk reason with someone who doesn’t listen to reason?
Comment by LOUDelf on 23 October 2008:
Panoptic,
I’m very well-read. Do you constantly start talking before removing your head from a place better meant for sitting?
Don’t get angry with me when you make stupid statements masked as jokes. And don’t worry, your mouth’s big enough for a couple more feet in it. Keep typing.
Comment by One More Mile on 23 October 2008:
Why is it that Democrats keep attacking all Republicans as ignorant? And as for charitable contributions: Last year Biden’s tax records indicated he made over $300,000 but his claimed charitable contributions were less than $1000. Palin’s record showed her income at about $160,000 yet her contributions were claimed at about $5000. Bears out GOPMom’s claims. Although perhaps Biden was being truthful when he said he contributes cash to his church. Must be nice to carry around several hundred dollar bills as chump change.
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
Why is it that Republicans keep attacking all Democrats as being elitist? As being lazy? As being socialist? I’ll admit that Republicans give to charity, maybe even more so than Democrats, but not all Republicans give more than all Democrats. If you want one Democrats contributions to stand for all, then don’t complain if I take one ignorant Republican (gopmom) and extrapolate that out to all Republicans. And if you want to take cheap shots - it must be nice to fly your kids around on your state’s dime.
LOUDelf, as gopmom so eloquently puts it: blah blah blah.
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
If the media is so in the tank for the Democrats - woo hoo! I’m glad they’re on our side. Go cry yourself to sleep. I’m just glad Republicans don’t have the money or influence to put more FOX News/Republican channels on the air. I’m glad the Democrats control everything. Better than the alternative I say. I just wonder why Republicans have such a hard time getting in on the action - Democrats must be way too powerful, huh? If it’s so bad do something about it, if you can. My gut tells me that you’re either not smart enough to stop them or you’re a bunch of whiny babies. That, or maybe you’ve blown the whole thing out of proportion?
Comment by LOUDelf on 23 October 2008:
Panoptic –
The problem with you is you’re an ideologue. Someone who believes that speech should be free… as long as YOU don’t disagree with it, smacks of elitism. You hate FOX because, heaven forbid, they tell you things from a different point of view. I have a problem with FOX because they claim they’re “fair and balanced” when we KNOW, and they have often admitted they actually aren’t. But, it wouldn’t be the top-rated news station if a LARGE portion of the people didn’t like/believe it. Personally, I think PBS/NPR is one of the least tainted sources of information, and prefer to make my own opinions based on what the information is, and not what Olberman or Hannity think.
But I will say this: Republicans, for the most part, want the American dream — to work hard and get ahead by their cunning and superior work ethic. Democrats, for the most part, want to be more like Robin Hood — taking from one group they deem unworthy, and giving that over to another that they do. This is both elitist AND socialist.
I prefer to work my tail off, make a boatload of money, and give some of it and my time to charity in order to help the TRULY needy and not the “wanty”.
But Panoptic, people like you don’t like we hard-working that do good deeds after a day of hard work. You think you should own the last 4 hours of my day to have it go to your favorite cause. My guess is you like a 40-hour work week. You think that because right now, more people swing to the Democrats, that your theories are all now correct… they once thought the world was flat by a much wider margin. You think that shouting someone down makes your point right, or that repeating someone’s quote of “blah blah blah” somehow makes you more intelligent than the person you mimicked or the person you targetted. All you’ve proven is that you can repeat talking points from the Kos or whatever blog you hold dear, and when people smell flatulants they instantly know what it was… you talking.
Comment by LOUDelf on 23 October 2008:
@ One More Mile –
Questions on this: Did this figure you quote of Palin’s income also reflect her husband’s? If not, it may be of similar proportion.
Also, if Biden carries around a couple hundred $$$ to give to his church, and doesn’t use the write-off, so what? I pat someone on the back who gives to charity out of goodness, and could care less about the write-off. Good for Biden on that one.
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
You’re right. I want to own your time and your money, and after the election I will. I can’t wait to get my hands on some of your hard earned dollars! You have me pinned. You’re so smart! I still think the earth is flat by the way - I don’t waiver. I would never change my opinion in the face of facts. HA! I’m an ideologue, you betcha. I MIGHT EVEN START WRITING IN CAPS TO EMPHASIZE THAT I’M SHOUTING YOU DOWN.
Seriously, is this the best an educated person like yourself can come up with? HA! I MIMICKED YOU. Boo-ya flatulent breath!
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
LOUDelf, is gopmom an ideologue too?
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
One more question: Does this mean that Democrats are more cunning than Republicans? I mean, they must be if they control the media, Hollywood, etc. Right? How else would they have gotten so far ahead?
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
And, yes, you need to a license to work as a plumber in Ohio.
Comment by One More Mile on 23 October 2008:
Palin tax returns for 2006, 2007 released
If you want to see USA Today’s article about candidates tax returns. Yes, the Palin income DOES INCLUDE the spouse.($166,495)
Perhaps Biden does indeed give with such a charitable heart…and who am I to question him, as he has threatened to “shove my rosary down his throat?” if one questions his faith.
Comment by LOUDelf on 23 October 2008:
“I would never change my opinion in the face of facts.”
Enough said Panoptic, you are, by definition an idiot. Maybe you should be more adept at proving your “opinions” all in one post… you might seem more coherent.
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
And you LOUDelf are by definition someone who has a hard time picking up on sarcasm. Maybe you should go to a real college and take some composition classes.
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
Actually, that entire paragraph, the one I said “I would never change my opinion…” was making fun of you. And I’ll comment as many times as I want, thank you very much. I don’t need to impress you.
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
To be honest, I like commenting this way. I create a new comment in response to each disparate argument that you and gopmom make. Addressing them individually like this really shows how incoherent your arguments are. You two bring in every talking point in the book, no matter if they fit the argument or not. Think of me commenting this way as a rhetorical trope used to show you two boneheads how all over the map you are.
Comment by LOUDelf on 23 October 2008:
What defines a “real college”? Do YOU get to choose this?
Please define which of my points does not fit. And please show me how I’m somehow all over the map.
Comment by Panoptic on 23 October 2008:
A real college is one that teaches you how to think and argue intelligently. I surmised that you didn’t go to one based on your comments.
Comment by gopmom on 23 October 2008:
So, I’m not going to waste my time addressing each of Panoptics rants today. I have way more important things to read - turns our Obama was born in Kenya - big news!
But there is one theme I believe requires clarification. While it is true that the Liberals have taken over the media - TV, Hollywood, news reporting - it does not mean that they are in control. We, as Conservatives and Republicans, may be unhappy with this turn of events but it does not mean we are powerless. In fact, we have more power than the Liberals will ever hope to have - the power to turn it all off. While all those on the Left are glued to their TV’s, computers and “news” papers and magazines, we are out there deciding for ourselves. We are thinking and planning and just living life. That is the great victory, after all. Maybe that is why they are all so angry and defeated all the time, so loud and belligerent, so offensive. The Left today is like the class clown from grade school - any attention, no matter how negative, is attention nonetheless. How pathetic. They’re just a bunch of overgrown children. And like children, they have no understanding that right wins out in the end, right has strength, right is the real power. They only have power over us if we give it to them.
So the media can declare Obama the winner all it wants. The papers can disparage our heroes all they want. The Left can ask us to “visualize” all they want. We just unplug, because we know the truth. And we know what is right. And there is something decidedly wrong with Barack Obama.
Comment by LOUDelf on 24 October 2008:
“A real college is one that teaches you how to think and argue intelligently. I surmised that you didn’t go to one based on your comments.”
Intelligence is not taught, it’s inherent, which is evidenced by the limits of your arguments. Try to form logical thoughts and present them in an intelligent fashion, instead of throwing in a word from the dictionary, and you’ll do a lot better. Even by your logic, I must have not only gone to a better school, but utilized it to my advantage in life better. But keep talking, it’s good for some laughs.
Comment by LOUDelf on 24 October 2008:
@ One More Mile
Thanks for the clarification!
Comment by elina on 24 October 2008:
“There is something decidedly wrong with Obama”,wow gopmom! Some foggy leftover of bad college education?
“2 to be,or not 2 be”, shall be next.
“Let’s call the witches” or “Chasing the red Mouse”.bang,bang.
looks like you have some fun overseas ,cousins..